Wednesday, October 01, 2014

IL: Non-resident Carry While Traveling




I attended the Gun Rights Policy Conference in Illinois last weekend.   After the event, I met another attendee in Wisconsin.   Don Hosmer recalled disarming before entering Illinois, and seeing several others do so as well.   As a result, I decided to explore the problems and possibilities of carry in Illinois for a non-resident.

You could apply for, and obtain an Illinois concealed carry permit.  They are backed up at present, but it looks like it would be possible, if somewhat difficult.  From the Illinois State Police site:
 Sec. 40. Non-resident license applications.
(a) For the purposes of this Section, "non-resident" means a person who has not resided within this State for more than 30 days and resides in another state or territory.
(b) The Department shall by rule allow for non-resident license applications from any state or territory of the United States with laws related to firearm ownership, possession, and carrying, that are substantially similar to the requirements to obtain a license under this Act.
It is unclear exactly how "substantially similar" will be interpreted.  A correspondent informs me that only Hawaii, New Mexico, South Carolina, and Virginia have been classified by Illinois as "substantially similar".

If you have not obtained a non-resident Illinois CCW license, you may still carry concealed in your vehicle.   Here is the relevant portion of the law:
(e) Nothing in this Act shall prohibit a non-resident from transporting a concealed firearm within his or her vehicle in Illinois, if the concealed firearm remains within his or her vehicle and the non-resident:

(1) is not prohibited from owning or possessing a firearm under federal law;

(2) is eligible to carry a firearm in public under the laws of his or her state or territory of residence, as evidenced by the possession of a concealed carry license or permit issued by his or her state of residence, if applicable; and

(3) is not in possession of a license under this Act.
If the non-resident leaves his or her vehicle unattended, he or she shall store the firearm within a locked vehicle or locked container within the vehicle in accordance with subsection (b) of Section 65 of this Act.
(Source: P.A. 98-63, eff. 7-9-13; 98-600, eff. 12-6-13.)
Don talked with Massad Ayoob and others at the conference and found the act on the  Illinois State Police web site.   It is worth noting that under the frequently asked questions (faq), the site is a bit misleading:
How will Illinois State Police (ISP) officers and local law enforcement respond to citizens who are carrying weapons?
The ISP will continue to enforce the law in effect. Persons who carry firearms without a Concealed Carry License issued by the ISP are subject to arrest.
That is not strictly true.  If you can carry in your home state, and are in your vehicle, you can carry concealed, as stated above under section (e).  if an officer asks you if you are armed, you have to tell them:

(h) If an officer of a law enforcement agency initiates an investigative stop, including but not limited to a traffic stop, of a licensee or a non-resident carrying a concealed firearm under subsection (e) of Section 40 of this Act, upon the request of the officer the licensee or non-resident shall disclose to the officer that he or she is in possession of a concealed firearm under this Act, present the license upon the request of the officer if he or she is a licensee or present upon the request of the officer evidence under paragraph (2) of subsection (e) of Section 40 of this Act that he or she is a non-resident qualified to carry under that subsection, and identify the location of the concealed firearm. During a traffic stop, any passenger within the vehicle who is a licensee or a non-resident carrying under subsection (e) of Section 40 of this Act must comply with the requirements of this subsection (h)

This might cause a problem if an officer stops you, asks if you are armed, you inform them that you are armed, and they then order you from the vehicle.   There is also the example of the famous case in Canton, Ohio, where the officer never allowed the holder of the concealed weapon permit to inform him that he was armed.

Note that the concealed carry law in Illinois is a concealed *firearm* law.  It does not appear to cover knives.   Knife law in Illinois is somewhat open to interpretation.  From knifeup.com:

This law bans brass knuckles, throwing stars, switchblades (and other automatic knives), and ballistic knives in the state of Illinois. The case of People v. Gazelle found that the knife ban in section (a)(1) only applies to switchblade knives or ballistic knives. Other knives that are not switchblades and ballistic knives are not banned. This means that balisong knives, also called butterfly knives, are legal.
The law also makes it illegal to open or concealed carry daggers, dirks, razors, stilettos, “dangerous knife,” and other similar dangerous weapons when you are attempting to harm someone else. You can also carry dirks, razors, daggers, stilettos, and “dangerous knives” all you want as long as you do not have the intent of harming another person.
Preemption law does not appear to cover knives yet, so there exists the possibility of local ordinances that could trip you up.  

Knife-expert.com offers this Illinois case law information:

Illinois Case Law: - "Possession of hunting knife is not a crime; however, knowingly carrying or possessing dangerous weapon with intent to use same unlawfully against another constitutes offense..." 
(1982) - "Weapon not listed in statute can become "dangerous weapon" when it is used in a manner dangerous to well being of individual threatened, and knife with blade less than 3 inches in length can be dangerous weapon if used in such manner." 
(1991) - "A straight-blade razor did not constitute a per se dangerous weapon, for purposes of armed violence charge..." 
(1987) - "Walking cane, even if not per se dangerous, was... transformed by defendant's usage into a dangerous weapon." (1977)
The Chicago ordinance 8-24-020 says that:

No person shall carry concealed on or about his person a pistol, revolver, derringer or other firearm or dagger, dirk, stiletto, bowie knife, commando knife, any blade of which is released by a spring mechanism, including known knives as "switch-blades" or any other type or kind of knife, any blade of which is more than two and one-half inches in length, ordinary razor or other dangerous weapon except that no person 18 years of age or under shall carry concealed on or about his person, any knife, the blade of which is two inches in length or longer.
 I was not going into Chicago proper.  I would be careful about carrying a blade there.   It seems clear to me that arms under the second amendment include knives, but I do not wish to be the test case.

Another interesting part of Illinois law, is that you can carry an unloaded firearm in a case.   This has become known as "unloaded fannypack carry".

What is left for Illinois residents, today, right now, is commonly referred to as "Container Transport" or "Fanny Pack Carry". It means having a FOID card (Illinois residents only) and transporting your firearm "Unloaded and enclosed in a case". Ammo is not regulated and you can have loaded magazines or speed loaders in the same case or in your pocket, or in an ammo pouch on your belt. Everywhere in Illinois! Also, there are different prohibited places for "Transport" than for concealed carry ; license holders. Places prohibited like public transportation or neighborhood festvals for concealed carry are perfectly fine to "Container Transport". Research these yourself.
The Illinois Supreme court has ruled that a person with a concealed carry permit from another state does not need an FOID card, so fannypack carry should apply to those non-residents with concealed carry permits.



It appears that a non-resident may carry a loaded, concealed firearm in a fannypack in their vehicle, then, when leaving the vehicle, unload it and carry the unloaded firearm and a charged speedloader or magazine in the fannypack with the firearm.

It might not be the quickest weapon to employ, but you would have it with you.

To sum up:

A non-resident can apply for an Illinois concealed carry permit, but I have not yet seen data as to what states are eligible.

Non-residents can carry concealed in their vehicle if they can legally do so in their state of residence.

Non-residents can carry "unloaded fannypack" style if they have a concealed carry permit from their state.

Knives are generally permited to be carried, but there may be local ordinances that could trip you up.

There is a long list of places where concealed carry of firearms by licensees are prohibited.   It does not seem to apply to fannypack carry.

I am not a lawyer, not do I play one on the Internets.   The links above take you to the law, so you can decide for yourself what it says.   It is likely that case law and the courts will provide further clarification.


©2014 by Dean Weingarten: Permission to share is granted when this notice is included.
Link to Gun Watch

25 comments:

Anonymous said...

Note that the "substantially similar" requirement for a non-resident license is currently interpreted as meaning Hawaii, New Mexico, South Carolina, and Virginia. If you are a resident of the other 45 states, you are out of luck. That is a ridiculous requirement when you consider that you still have to pass the Illinois background check and meet all of the Illinois training requirements.

Anonymous said...

If HR 2959 were to get passed, it would blow the doors off of most states gun laws and California would be out of business. The problem in California is very interesting. It has the most anti gun laws of any state and the California state constitution has no provision to delegate the authority to the state legislature to have the authority to write even one gun law. There is absolutely nothing that addresses second amendment issues in the California state Constitution. If the authority was never delegated the authority does not exist. Not one single gun law in California is valid. When the California constitution was written, because of the tenth amendment in the bill of rights, there was no need to address the issue covered by the second amendment. Therefore the California legislature has never had the authority to pass any gun laws. If the citizens that ratified the state constitution never delegated the authority to the legislature the authority has never existed. To get the authority a constitutional amendment would be required.

Anonymous said...

There has been at least two US supreme court rulings many years ago. the first ruling about 1964 said all you had to do to be considered to be in compliance with the laws, as a bonafide traveler, of other states was to follow the laws of the state your vehicle was registered in for transporting fire arms any where as long as they remained in your vehicle. The next time was several years later and the US supreme court changed the ruling to , the vehicle must Have the facilities of a home away from home, like a motor home.

Dean Scholl said...

Ok...I drive a truck..I'm from Indiana and have an Indiana handgun permit...does this mean that I can have mycweapon with me but it has to be unloaded and in a separate location and be in a case....am I correct??

Dean Scholl said...

Will someone answer this..

Anonymous said...

Non-residents can carry concealed in their vehicle if they can legally do so in their state of residence.

Anonymous said...

I need to travel to Arkansas through Illinois for a short distance. I have an Arkansas Concealed Cary permit from Arkansas. No stops are planned. Do I have a problem?

larry alimo said...

Seems like nobody has the right answer.. I going to Illinois this summer to visit our kids. Can I carry in my car.. W T F screw Illinois fucking Christy is a pussy..

GODSMACKER said...

No, as long as you are passing through Illinois and no where in Illinois is your destination

GODSMACKER said...

You can travel though Illinois as long as it is not your destination

Anonymous said...

How does this affect a nonresident biker with a concealed carry permit from their home state? You can't very well lock the weapon in the saddlebags withtout dismounting the bike. Once dismounted you are no longer IN/ON your vehicle. Is there a solution to this.

Dean Weingarten said...

It seems likely that the best bet for carrying on a motorcycle would be fannypack carry. That is, unloaded in a case (the fannypack). It is not illegal to have ammunition, a loaded magazine, or a speed loader in the fannypack as well, as long as they are not in the firearm.

Anonymous said...

Illinois is a screwed up state. I'm traveling through that state and will simply unload my handgun, lock in is my steal handgun carrying case (has a combination lock) and will place the case in my lockable hard saddle bag (tour pack). And yes, I do have a permit to carry a concealed pistol from my resident state (Michigan). Therefore, I will avoid stopping in Illinois where possible and won't spend any money there as well.

Anonymous said...

Its ridiculous to even think that, even with an OHIO CCW I cannot carry in Illinois. Chicago is on another planet, but I'm riding my bike to visit some cousins in Southern IL and I'll carry my gun in the locked saddlebag. I'm wondering if that would be considered the same as carrying in the trunk of your car? It should be, to my mind.

Another point to all this, is stay 100% sober no matter what State you are in if you are carrying.

cody diecks said...

I ride a sports bike every month to Illinois,Can I filed strip my glock and store it in my backpack on me?

WT Schenck said...

The person who posted this article implied there was something wrong with the ISP's response to the FAQ. There is not. They are talking about CITIZENS (i.e. Residents of Illinois) who carry without an Illinois permit. Non-residents with a home state permit may carry in Illinois in their car - they just can't get out with the gun. And lock it up, unloaded, when you do leave the car.

Indiana Joe said...

Chicago, the murder capital of the US, with all their gun laws is testimony to stupidity.

larry alimo said...

Agreed. Mean while Chicago has three former politions in prison W T F

Danny Hale said...

I'm from texas and con legally conceal carry in my car (I do not have a chl). Texas gun laws are such that a non license holder can carry in a vehicle due to the castle clause. Since I can legally carry in my vehicle in my home state could I legally carry in my car if visiting Illinois. As long as I lock it in the back when I'm not in the car.

Anonymous said...

It seems to me the 2nd amendment says we have the right to bear arms!!!! Period!! And NO laws shall infringe on that RIGHT.

Anonymous said...

How would the NEW Tnn.law where u can carry loaded as long as weapon is in plain view in your car. Work in Illinois passing thru.

Anonymous said...

This is to confusing, all I want to do is go to Illinois pick up a lawnmower and go back to MO, I have a MO ccw permit,but still don't know how to transport my hand gun In Illinois?

Coon hunting Sam said...

Can one have a long gun in a house that he or she is visiting I coon hunt in many states an was wondering what a person must do

TruthIsStranger said...

Passed through Illinois and received two felony charges of agg unlawful use of a weapon for the same gun. 18 months in prison at 50%. Pathetic. 1 for carrying concealed and 1 for being loaded. Enter at your own risk.

Anonymous said...

I am flying from my home in Florida (where I have a carry permit) and into Chicago Midway airport. I will be driving back to Florida from there. Will there be any problem picking up my handgun in my checked and declared luggage at Chicago Midway Airport? Can I carry from the airport baggage claim to an Uber outside the airport?